Incongruent

Pilot - The Whole T: Green Tea "Is COVID-19 an excuse to pollute"

July 30, 2020 Adrienne Doolan, Iain Munro, Shana Tuffail Season 1
Incongruent
Pilot - The Whole T: Green Tea "Is COVID-19 an excuse to pollute"
Show Notes Transcript

This is the pilot for Samira Banat’s new series, The Whole T, which values authentic conversations and unique perspectives. In this episode, she is joined by co-host, Arjun Radeesh and three eco-expert guests: Adrienne Doolan of Green Touches, Iain Munro of Ryse Energy and Shana Tufail of The Alan Turing Institute, to find the answer to the question: “Is COVID-19 an excuse to pollute?”


Intro music: www.bensound.com.

Samira :

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of the Incongruent podcast. We hope this session finds everyone well in these challenging and testing times. Before we get into today's discussion, we want to fully acknowledge the hardships people have come to face due to the current circumstances. And despite this being a sensitive topic, we mean no disrespect. And in no way do we wish to dismiss the severity of the pandemic and the tragedy it has imposed on so many. And with that, I want to welcome you to the very first episode of the "Whole T", a show where we value authentic conversations, unique perspectives, and of course tea! If you're keen on even one of these things, you've come to the right place. I'm your host, Samira Banet, and I'm honoured to introduce my co host today fellow in conquerable.

Arjun Radeesh :

Kaboom! Arjun, Oh no, my name is Arjun

Samira :

Yes

Arjun Radeesh :

And it's Arjun here...

Samira :

And of course, our three honourable guests. Honourable guests, the floor is yours, please take it away....

Shana Tuffail :

Hi, I'm Shana Tuffail. I'm from London in the UK, and I'm the communications and marketing manager at the Alan Turing Institute. I'm also the Turing equality, diversity and inclusion lead, and I do a lot of work for the UN Sustainable Development Goals with Extinction Rebellion and climate activism.

Iain Munro :

Hi there, my name is Iain Monroe, Ryse energy strategy director and we primarily work in energy access in developing countries.

Adrienne Doolan :

I'm Adrienne Doolan . I'm I run a cleaning services company for all about the environment and ridding our world of toxic chemicals. We're also United Nations Global Compact members. I sit on the board as well for the UN. So we like to run and quite an ethical company here. So we're all about reducing water, chemicals, recycling everything to do with our environment and leading towards health and wellness.

Samira :

Amazing. Welcome everyone. Now the reason this victorious group of people are here today is to discuss a very important and much debated topic surrounding the pandemic. Is COVID-19 an excuse to pollute? Obviously, prior to the world going into lockdown, the anti global warming movement was at its peak, and the world seemed to finally listen and engage in action for positive change. So, Shana, what can you tell us about that? What changes have you observed in the movement and people's attitude towards it?

Shana Tuffail :

So pretty early on, I noticed that the pace was gathering around how environmental emergency is tied into COVID. The media was awash with news reporting on how public recognised the interconnections between health, the economy, government policies and our way of living. We actually had an opportunity to see how these were playing out. Many activists spoke about this previously, but people didn't quite make that connection. And I think COVID really shone that light. So in the UK, a recent survey has found that 79% of Brits, that 8 in 10 want a net zero alignment embedded in the COVID recovery package. That is a huge appetite finally for pushing forward the climate agenda with bailouts and much needed investments in high carbon industries and businesses a huge opportunity, and then tied in with this as a recognition that there is an opportunity to upskill workers and ensure sustainable change are sustainable. And so there's a huge appetite and a huge shift in attitudes that I've recognised that's taking place globally.

Arjun Radeesh :

So my question right now is to Iain. COVID-19. shutdowns are clearing the air but once restrictions losen air pollution levels, so bounce back, like for example, we have seen the lakes in Venice, then the polluted capital city of India, New Delhi, the pictures there have been comparisons in media saying that okay, things seen in in October and things seen in February. So what are your thoughts on that in?

Iain Munro :

Yeah. I think I think you're right. The the COVID-19 shutdowns gave the world an unintended opportunity for an experiment. But the problem is that we still have the same cars, the same roads, the same industries and houses. So how do we facilitate change in, you know, in the back end of this global pandemic. It's a it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough response. I guess the way that it can be done is is through the road to recovery and a lot of the multilateral banks and international agencies are pushing for a post COVID renewables response. Well, the risk is still very high that the, the carbon output is just only going to increase as the world opens up. It was 20% down year on year in April and now it's only 5% down as of June. So, it's going to primarily be down to how governments and international agencies prioritise the efforts of their financial stimuluses,

Samira :

Opposed to people noticing changes, perhaps even positive changes in the climate, the COVID-19 crisis is leading to a new source of pollution, protective equipment such as gloves, face masks and cleaning agents making their way into the world seas and oceans. Now this is something I have been quite worried about. In fact, this was the very reason I decided to go through with this episode. And it's obviously difficult to find the right way to approach this situation, especially due to protective equipment and cleaning agents being deemed mandatory in the effort to fight the virus. And so, Adrianne, what has your experience with this been like

Adrienne Doolan :

Erm... frustrated! Because, yeah, it you know, the masks were necessary to protect people. And the cotton masks, you know, which were coming out as well were better and the, you know, the material ones that people could reuse. But, you know, a lot of people opt for the for the regular masks, and the gloves and everything. And it's been such a shame because now we're still going ahead, we're still using them and they are just being dumped willy nilly. You know, that's the problem. One of the biggest problems Yes, we may have had to use them and and that may have, you know, protected people and helped to save lives. So, you know, even though I am a passionate environmentalist, and I still could understand the need for these things, and you can't, you know, you can't be giving out about everything, you know. And right we know we were we saved on air pollution, but yeah, okay, maybe we didn't in plastic but these were necessary. But you know what I think it's about civic responsibility now and about people, you know, disposing of them properly. Uh, you look everywhere, they're everywhere you come out of your shopping centre, they're just thrown on the ground, from people's cars. So a lot of it is civic responsibility. And regarding all the disinfectants and the cleaning and everything, to be honest with you, and I mean, the WHO came out and said that one of the most important things and was washing your hands, you know, back to basic hygiene and teaching people basic hygiene actually, because we all know that, you know, hygiene is still not great, and yet it should be on the top of everybody's list. And so, you know, for me I didn't see that dramatic need to start disinfecting everywhere and hand sanitising everything and going up being obsessive, because for me, it was just about, it's about quality cleaning. And I think that's the difference. And responsible cleaning and knowing what you're doing, especially if you're going residential or commercial, you know, you have a huge responsibility I'm always saying to people, regarding cleaning. For me personally, we didn't start going overboard on our disinfectants or hand sanitizers In fact, we have a company that we work with here in in Sharjah with two Syrian chemists to make all our products for us. So they're all natural products. Yeah, even their disinfectants and they're all 99.999% and approved and everything so you know, it's about getting that out and trying to say to people we you know, there are alternatives to to this, you know, but it's still difficult and, you know, I it was really brilliant to hear Shama saying that in the UK that people are finally turning around to realising that we have to do something. But I don't find that here personally in the UAE at the moment, I think it's everybody wants to go back to business. And for me, I have, you know, hoped for this major paradigm shift in order to make changes in the world, and I think we've got it. And I think we really need to hang on to it. I'm working at work on the now to make differences.

Samira :

Definitely.

Arjun Radeesh :

And with that, the fourth question, and this is to all of you guys, could you perhaps offer any sort of tips on how to maintain an eco friendly approach towards the lifestyle or to any particular tasks while still prioritising health and safety? I would like to start with Adrienne, for to comment on this.

Adrienne Doolan :

Yeah, I think maybe I already probably talked too much and said most of what I was saying, anyway, I mean, you know, for me, it's very simple, I don't like toxic chemicals, traditional chemicals. I don't see the necessity for them actually. And I know that using natural products and we use an aqueous ozone oh three, this is far more powerful than any other products. So, you know for me it's it's an easy answer. I'm not obsessive, I don't like to walk down the aisles of supermarkets and see all this waste, you know, this toxic chemical and all the plastic, you know, so there are many alternatives so I would hope people would would start looking at the alternatives

Arjun Radeesh :

What about Iain.

Iain Munro :

Yeah, I think I echo everyone else's comments. It's really just a shift away from single use items. You know, if you're if you're out in restaurants in the UAE, they're using single use glasses. I find that bizarre. I mean, that's that's really about educating at government and a local level in terms of restaurants in that, if you if you wash, if you wash your glasses, you know, appropriately, there'll be no, there'll be no issues there. But there's also a fine balance between health and safety and you know, the single use items. You know, face masks are one or one you know, hot topic example where you know, how much uses is the face mask against just simply washing your hands and, you use a cotton or, or multiple use facemask against the single uses, what's the what's the risk profile of each? So I guess it's just about education and, and trying to do the best you can.

Samira :

Definitely and you mentioned the restaurants and we've heard examples of restaurants giving out several plastic plates along with each meal to just a single person. So definitely education is key. So what about Shana?

Shana Tuffail :

So I'd really like to think, and for us to consider the intersectionality and the inequities that COVID has brought into play. For me COVID has shone a light on the need and the necessity for environmental intersectionality. Intersectionality being the lens, that centres the recognition that we are just not just one thing. You know, I'm female and person of colour, all of these things intersect. And then in terms of environmental intersectionality, it's considering how the intersection of inequality such as poverty and health play out. So with COVID, we can see more clearly than ever, how our lives are intertwined, and how our health plays a key role in not just for ourselves, but with anybody that we come into contact with. And this new reality is formidable and surreal, but it's like a microcosm of the climate crisis that we are all highly aware of. And so I'm always thinking about how can we talk about maintaining an eco friendly approach to our lives in today's context, where we prioritise Health and Safety, which right now, you know comes right down to life and death. And so we need to take a step back. And start thinking about how the impact of this plays a role on our life, you know, our lifestyle and our habits do come into this, we have to consider the impact on those around us, our friends and our family and our colleagues and strangers, we, you know, this is a huge thing that is just right at the front of our minds right here right now. And that, you know, that that involves a lot of that, you know, consumption habits, lifestyle habits, all come into that, then thinking that this means, you know, ensuring that we can all do what we can to maintain our health. We have to focus and prioritise our health, we have to exercise, we need the infrastructure where we can walk and bike and cycle instead of jumping into our cars, which in the UK, the government is encouraging people to do, which obviously is going to have an impact on the carbon emissions. And part of this for me, it's also how this isn't possible for those that have lost their jobs or struggling to protect food on the table. So these new habits and new ways of consuming are all things that we need to consider. And then it just really brings into light, just how everything we do is interconnected and our lives are intertwined.

Samira :

Of course. That's extremely important. And actually, while planning this episode, we reached out to some of our audience members, and had them ask us questions relating to this topic. So they voiced some of their concerns in regards to it. And we're going to incorporate a few of them into a fun little segment called questions from our listeners. The title is subject to change. So please, if you have any recommendations, let us know. And Arjun, hall we get started?

Arjun Radeesh :

Yeah, sure. So this question is to Shana and Iain so did the air pollution levels drop has this actually stopped global warming because so much media during these days has clearly specified by showing maps saying that okay, the night I have reduced in atmosphere and all those. So what do you think Shana?

Shana Tuffail :

So this is actually a really pertinent thing that's in the news at the moment in the, in the UK. So yes, for a while, there was a drop in the air pollution and carbon emissions, but as lockdown has... as lockdown eases globally, the surprise in the UK has been how rapidly carbon emissions have rebounded with much fear and recognition that this is already set to get worse as people shun public transport in favour of cars.

Arjun Radeesh :

Okay. What about in? What's your take?

Iain Munro :

Yeah, I think three months of reduced air pollution doesn't prevent global warming or really even slow it down. But the actions that we can take now in terms of a plan to integrate renewables and decarbonize industries and post COVID recovery measures could could drive a shift in the longer term, and I guess it's just about the global energy mix that we now plan for going ahead and that's at the very highest level that are the stakeholders are going to make these decisions. So linking these short term recovery goals to medium and long term energy strategies is, is paramount in in achieving, you know, sustainable development goals and the Paris Climate Agreement on climate change.

Arjun Radeesh :

Okay, so the next question moving on to Shana, will people be more cautious about pollution once things are back to normal? Like we spend quite a lot of time at home? So is there any chance that people can educate themselves on important issues regarding environment and global warming?

Shana Tuffail :

Thank you for that question. So I think there are a lot of contradictions unfolding as we start to ease out of lockdown where we have two camps emerging. Those that are already going straight back to living the way that they were, you know, that there's there's no state of social distancing. They just want to get back to life. They've had enough. And those that are rightly conscientious and looking for new ways of proceeding with life after lockdown. So my sense is that at the moment, you know, there's a possibility that health might trump air pollution and the climate emergency, where those that are focused on social distancing and won't be thinking about how to get from A to B and the day to day challenges of going to work. And so more than ever, it's pertinent that we actually need government to step in to create the infrastructure needed for the green recovery to proceed as as needed.

Arjun Radeesh :

Okay, Adrienne, what is your take on this?

Adrienne Doolan :

I said don't get me started on this and you know what, I actually believe now that people are just want to go back to the normal. I, you know, I don't... I agree with Iian. I, you know, a couple of months is not going to affect affect the, you know, the climate the climate change. People are not able to actually grasp the human being is not able to grasp something as significant as climate change, we're only able to deal with things which are here and now. So COVID-19 is something that we've been dealing with and are still dealing with quite well. I would have thought that, you know, the more we sort of spoke about the fact that this is perhaps, you know, because we're not treating the earth well that these kind of things may come, you know, and but it doesn't seem to ring through to people. I think and education, we really need to push out to people and maybe frighten people a little bit more on the changes, you know. If you think about when last summer when you have the Amazon forests burning, you know, if you if you tell people the last, you know, every five breaths, your fifth breath is from the Amazon forests, you know, and so we're destroying them. And it's, it's like now you know, the Earth actually does not need us at all. You know, we need it and we need to start to learn that we have a symbiotic relationship with nature and we need to stop being so arrogant. And I wish like a whole lot of people. I mean, you know, Attenborough and David Attenborough and Jane Goodall and all the celebrities and everybody come out and they're talking and talking about, you know, climate change and the need to make changes, but for some reason it there's a blockage with with penetrating people want to go back into the old economy, we need to change we need to move towards circular economy so that we can, you know, make the changes as as Shanna referred to earlier. What's going.. what's going on, you know, the rich and the poor divide, you can still, you know, that is so apparent now with with COVID as well. So we really, really need to start making changes and pushing the boat out.

Arjun Radeesh :

Okay, and finally, the question is to Adrienne, they are being exposed to various chemical set to destroy virus particles. Is this adding wasteful toxins into atmosphere? And do this pose a danger for us in the future?

Adrienne Doolan :

Yes, I think so. I've seen I mean here in the UAE, they you know, they've, they're taking all the precautions that they think are necessary. But I'm just not sure that spraying disinfectants and sterilising streets and stuff is actually the way forward. Sometimes it's a knee jerk reaction. But we actually, you know, people going out through these sanitising tunnels and all sorts of stuff like this really, you know, these a lot of these things are cancer, have cancerous properties. So, you know, I think we're still back to just the old hygiene again and stop overreacting. Because I think in the long term, all of these chemicals, disinfectants, I mean, they're Clorox is being used in abundance now being you're being sprayed on your feet before you enter malls. It's like, This is crazy. This is not necessary there are way more things you can do than than this and yeah, so in long term I think it can have can have serious damage on people's health and again, the ground, the waterways, everything. Yeah.

Arjun :

So as our guests have said, it is important to take the time to educate ourselves in regards to both environment and virus and how everything is interconnected.

Samira :

And I'm, I'm just really glad that we got to bring light to matters that are equally as important. And I hope that our audience can learn something from everything that you've said about how to adjust your lifestyle, to create a positive space and mindset for not only themselves but the rest of the world and despite people going through such difficult times right now. So thank you so much for all your insight. Thank you so much for listening. This was Samira Banat, and this was the "Whole T".