In what is technically the first episode of season three, we kick off with a bang. Lydia and Arjun had the chance to interview Juan Pablo Celis. a youth policy and climate advocate and empowerment speaker in the run up to his participation at a major UAE conference on sustainability.
Juan Pablo is an Adviser to the Youth Representatives Steering Committee of the United Nations Department of Global Communication, Civil Society Unit, where he was a founding member since 2016 and shares his unique outlook and experience on the multilateral system, and how youth can and are being involved in public policy development.
In what is technically the first episode of season three, we kick off with a bang. Lydia and Arjun had the chance to interview Juan Pablo Celis. a youth policy and climate advocate and empowerment speaker in the run up to his participation at a major UAE conference on sustainability.
Juan Pablo is an Adviser to the Youth Representatives Steering Committee of the United Nations Department of Global Communication, Civil Society Unit, where he was a founding member since 2016 and shares his unique outlook and experience on the multilateral system, and how youth can and are being involved in public policy development.
[Introducing in Spanish]
Juan Pablo Celis:Thank you so much. That's really good Spanish.
Lydia:Thank you. In a world dealing with a pandemic, political tensions and a great divide in the people, our society is in need of rebuilding and bettering, which can only start by showing human rights are central to recovery efforts. With this in mind, it was only right invited guest who is crucial to making this happen. Join us today as advisor to a youth committee at the UN, and also a spokesperson to the education USA programme of the US Department of State. Juan Pablo sillies crusius. In a span of 10 years, who has provided support and awareness in bringing justice refugees, and migrants, abolishing gender inequality, building up a powerful financial support structure in companies and encouraging stable opportunities for the youth political participation and decision making. And the list of about 2000 more things for someone so young to have accomplished so much. It truly is so inspiring and an honour to have you join us here today.
Arjun Radeesh:So in an interview, which you gave in El tiempo, last year, you stated that throughout your career, so far, you have observed discrimination against young people who are being perceived as immature and unable to provide effective problems solutions. Why do you think this is still prominent in a society that regard itself as a progressive society,
Juan Pablo Celis:I think there are many different issues that causes this, this continuous stereotyping of young people in especially in decision making processes, and one of them is because young people are still not included in many spaces where decisions are made. In these high level decision making spaces, like in companies in governments and institutions, there is still a lack of young people participating in these decisions. And I think that's why it creates such stereotypes, because the older generations are not able to understand what young people can offer, if they not bring if they don't bring the young people to the conversation and to the table of decisions. So I think that's the main reason why I believe that there is still this kind of stereotyping about young people that, oh, you're too young to be a leader, an important leader Are you too, you might be too young to take on are very important leadership role. Because you might be too mature, you might be making emotional decisions, or you don't have good experience or a lot of experience. But that has been proven not to be the case. But that happens that we can overcome those barriers when we have young people actually in the decision making process.
Arjun Radeesh:Okay, so just a question that just to follow up. So you yourself, in what age did you start your career to do become to the stage have to sort of say, till this time to break to reach your level as the United Nations in United Nations? So in what is did you start?
Juan Pablo Celis:Well, as I said, I'm an advisor to a youth, the youth, the youth representatives, a steering committee, of the UN department of global communications and acting just as an advisor at this moment. But I started this journey, because I experienced myself that kind of, you know, maybe I will say, in some instances discrimination, but I think it's more of like, just the, you know, sometimes being excluded. Not necessarily discrimination, but more of like being excluded. Because I started this journey very young. I was 20 years old, when I got into this type of career, and I experienced that a lot of the people that were in my field were just really older people. So it was something that was challenging for me. But you know, the only way to really overcome those barriers is when you prove yourself to be really good, effective. When you work hard. And when you understand and you believe in the work you're doing.
Arjun Radeesh:Great.
Lydia:I wanted to ask you, I cannot really help with comment on the fact that from a young age, as you've said, You have travelled into different parts of the world working in various posts. you've travelled from the Americas to Europe and from Africa to the Middle East in Asia, and everyone is aware of the benefits of travelling can provide as it broadens our horizons by coming into contact with different cultures, customs and traditions. Nevertheless, did you find it difficult to assimilate into the different cultures you came across in order to develop more effective patterns in your work environment?
Juan Pablo Celis:I mean, it always takes some kind of challenge to assimilate a different culture, a different country that you are in. But I think the best advice that I would give in that case is to just really be open to everything. And also to do not come with stereotypes in your head, about the country you're going to. And that's just going back to the previous question is, you can have, you can have any expectations, good or bad, where you going to, because you want to be pleasantly surprised. So you have to be adaptable to the situation. And also you need to, you know, do do a little bit of the research of how things go in, go over there, make sure you do research, researching in places that are, you know, verifiable places that, you know, they just don't talk badly about certain cultures, or just places that where you actually can hear about what the customs or culture for real are, you know, so I think it's really important to just be very open to it. And, you know, be coming with an open mind to understand how people live and how we interact, how to interact with the community there.
Lydia:Although coming with an open mind in whatever work or pose you're in, how do you think that people can overcome inherent stereotypes and be better in what they're doing?
Juan Pablo Celis:I think that's, as I've mentioned, I believe good work speaks for itself. And when you are passionate about what you're doing, and you believe in it, it speaks for yourself. And that's how you overcome many of these stereotypes.
Arjun Radeesh:Okay, moving on. Do you think cultural barriers are important when it comes to youth their development? And if yes, how do you think they can overcome this particular scenario?
Juan Pablo Celis:I think it's a it's a kind of like, both ways answer because I think when we don't understand these cultural barriers, when we don't recognise them, it's it's hard to work and develop communities, especially young people. And I tell you why, because when we talk about your development in in certain countries, of course, it varies, it changes depending on the place you're in. But that also has to deal a lot with how much do you How much do you know, this, the community that you're working on? What are what are their challenges? How is what is young people going through in this specific place, and you need to do a process of understanding what the community is going through enabled to be able to do an effective youth development process. So so definitely cultural barriers are important to understand. But I wouldn't say is more of a barrier, I think, is most of cultural knowledge. Because sometimes we just when we work with different communities, and we go to different places, we don't do enough research to understand what our young people really need for what are your room people really looking for? So that's something I consider, I think it's really important to just bring that knowledge beforehand to be able to be to be more effective on new development, each community
Arjun Radeesh:Great.
Lydia:So having the knowledge in how to respond to different populations, how do you think that different countries that you visited, have responded to youth development, political participation, decision making and leadership?
Juan Pablo Celis:Well, I as I say there is it changes, it depends on sort of the how the country is set up. When we talk about policies and government, if he's, if he's a democratic state, and how they how young people can participate through different processes. So it changes depending on the on the on the country or the city you're in. But it definitely I say it's more much more of an opportunity in terms of increasing instead of a challenge, because it gives you the chance to find ways to be more productive and to understand how to get to that position of leadership on how you to get young people to be in this position of leadership. So it's really about understanding the specific countries way of developing.
Arjun Radeesh:In one of your speeches at the SDG action zone at the UN Climate Action summit. You stressed on the significance of effectively networking with other individuals, whilst being able to not only share your ideas, but also being capable of providing solutions. So throughout your work, you have advocated for youth participation, as you have stated in the inclusion of youth people as vital for societal development. However, it's natural to say that youth lack the level of experience present in older people working in the industry for longer especially in your industry dealing with human rights, advocacy, equality and leadership. So my question is, if inclusion of the youth in such an industry is whiter, how can one ensure that their participation will be effective and provide progressive results?
Juan Pablo Celis:Well, I think definitely, we need to remove levels of experience, years of experience, when we when it comes to hiring individuals, I think it has to be based more on how intense or how important or relevant the work that the person did. Because you might have 10 years of experience doing the exact same thing over and over again, for from from nine to five, seven days a week, and you did the exact same job for 10 years. And then you tell me, for example, a young person who worked for two years as a leader on the on his or his or her community, and was able to change the whole lives of all this community in two years. So how do you compare 10 years of experience of someone that did exactly the same thing with someone but the two years and change the lives of 1000s of people? So I think it's really vital that to include young people in this kind of places, and within this environment is we need to remove the barriers of experience of years of experience, and they need to be counted as let's say, experiential experience, more of like how much you measure it through the impact of how much on what the person doing? How did it vary through the years, instead of with someone who has been all these long years doing the exact same thing? So I think it's, it's really important that a lot of places, especially big companies, or big institution that are very old, that have a very bureaucratic system, remove those barriers of this very asking for 1520 years of experience of a job that maybe a young person can do even better. So that's that's, it is it? I think that's one of the critical challenges. And that has to be addressed in order for an institution to really make meaningful changes.
Lydia:Let's say that we we move experience, although in my opinion, is a vital part. Because when you have worked for some time and a work environment, you're better and you know what's going on in that work environment, you're going to better adapt into that. Talking from personal experiences, because in law. But let's say that we move experience, what do you think is very important in supporting the youth in being able to adapt in such a globalised and changing world where competition is very important in our times? And everyone? And for example, if you want to apply to a company, it doesn't matter how much how many degrees you have. But it's the the work and thethe"experience" in quotation marks that you have.
Juan Pablo Celis:Yeah, and I mean, I understand your point, Maria, for sure. But let me tell you something, I feel that just in the United Nations, when I did my dissertation, my Masters, I found out that only less than 1% of the professional p level staff at the United Nations is under the age of 30, only less than 1% compared to the whole 100% of people that work as a professional staff at the United Nations. And this is something I questioned myself. Why Why is this happening. And the main reason that I found out was because the bureaucratic system, ask people to have 10, 15 years 20 years of experience, and because that limits their access of young, powerful leaders that are able to provide much more insight and changes to the to the United Nations and more effective work, but they're not allowed to access it because of this bureaucratic system. So I think, of course, the years of experience are necessary. But when I talk about years of experience, they should be measured on impact. They should be measured on what you did, and the activities that you did, because it definitely does change the environment of the place that you're going to be bringing all these young people. Because I give you a quick example, the social media team of the United Nations, for example, is is really big. But unfortunately, most of the people that work there are older people, and who understand your social media better than anyone else. Young people, right? Young people are the experts of social media, and interaction online, and how you're going to bring young people to these kind of teams, they can come in, because when they apply to these jobs, they ask you for 15 to 20 years of experience or 10 years on, and indeed, it just limits the possibility to really be effective. So that's how that you need to measure impact with experience, not just experience.
Lydia:I agree with the point I agree that impact is very important nowadays. So I want to move to another topic. So human rights advocacy has undoubtedly been a big part of your identity as an individual on your life session entitled human rights advocacy with carlina peria, you discuss empowering minorities, and frivolous people and aiding them in dealing with rights infringement. Although effort has been made by different use, minorities still fail to achieve justice, how do you think the infringement of rights is still prominent? Does this fulfil the psychological theory that humans? are social animals with a need to be superior?
Juan Pablo Celis:Well, I think that's a really, let's say, a very complicated question. Because there is no one single answer to this. There is not really the you know, the million dollar answer to a question like this, because when we talk about human rights, and when we talk about opportunities for minorities, it just gets really tricky, depending on where the place that we're talking to about or the city or the country. So for me, just I will give you in my personal experience, what I did on human rights advocacy for minorities. It is, it is really challenging to give opportunities for people that are not even considered under the law, that are not even, you know, respected or acknowledged under the government. So starting from there, I think it's highly important that governments address and understand and that and recognise that there are these issues with these minorities, and then they should be mentioned, on and be protected under the law. So I think that's the first step, I believe, to start just just to give an example, just to start giving more opportunities for minorities, I'm just trying to give you a general answer. Because as I said, it's a it's a really complex question. And it really depends on what minority groups where what city what area or, or community. So, so I believe it's, it starts from the definitely, from the top leadership from the top. And of course, NGOs. Leadership is also highly important when it comes to changing the norms underground, changing the mindsets of communities on the ground. So NGOs should be should continue being supported, and they should receive much more support from institutions and powerful individuals, because NGOs are really doing the groundwork that is highly necessary to give minorities the rights they they deserve.
Lydia:I like that you mention law as being very important in helping minorities but it's very unfortunate the fact that although there are some legislations, like there's there's your but there's no the fact that it's not implemented in the system. And I think that what you said that changing the thinking and how people respond to such situations, it's very important in saving equality and justice in all aspects of life.
Juan Pablo Celis:Certainly, and it definitely, even if, let's say, minorities are protected under the law, that norm, the norm on certain places is different. And in some of them, many of them are still being threatened and exposed. So I think that has to do a lot with the power of NGOs on the ground, and in groups, supporting and making sure or reporting that does that even in under the law. They're being mentored, they're being protected. These NGOs and groups should be on the leading role to report and make sure that these law are these laws are being implemented on the ground.
Lydia:Having myself participating in conventions throughout my years in high school; conferences taking place of the Hague. I cannot help but admire the fact that at such a young age you are you are working in the United Nations. And it truly sounds fascinating being able to work with various countries and provide solutions to current global matters. Not only does it help young people with public speaking but also in analysing and acquiring glimpse of the work done in the UN. I'm particularly interested in house impact can be achieved when countries disagree where what steps and mechanism can be taken.
Juan Pablo Celis:Well, thank you for that question. I, you know, I just want to give you an idea about how to engage with the United Nations. There are many different ways to do it. You don't have to really work as a staff member with the United Nations to be able to get be involved with the UN. There are many things different ways to do it, either through an NGO or through a youth group, either to a company, either to adjust an event or a conference, there are many different ways to get involved with it. And that's how I found out when I started my, in my early years in this career is that there are many different ways to engage with the UN, no, just as a staff member, and, and there are different ways to partner with the organ, this organisation and that people don't know about. And I think that's why I use my life as an example, I guess, my career as an example of how to engage with organisations like this without being without being just a staff member, you know, because I have not been a staff member. But I have been in several different positions with the new in partnership with the UN that have given me the opportunity to participate in all these conferences to be co chair of a UN Conference, the UN civil society conference in 2016, has used subcommittee culture, and in many of the different ways, and I did not have to like there is not one single way to do it, there is not one single path. There are many different ways, it's just that sometimes people don't know about them, and they're not promoted enough. So I use my own experience as a message to young people to or two ways to engage with organisations like this, and not only with the UN, that many other organisations, international ones that you can engage with differently doesn't just have to be as an employer, you know, so that's why I think it's highly important to remember to mention that, from everyone who's listening to this is that there are always different ways to get into places there is not one single step or one single path. I'm sorry, I'm not going to your social impact a country's a when countries disagree. Time, I think it's a it's a really important learning process. Because when you want when you understand why countries disagree, you're able to be more empathetic, you're able to be have that empathy of understanding why these people think differently than me? Why do they have this specific way of thinking? Or why do they believe that things had to be done this or this or that way? And, and that teaches me a lot about him about empathy. And when you have empathy, you impact people's lives, because you're able to understand people's way of being or thinking or behaviour and, and you're able to communicate to them effectively, and you're able to work with them effectively. So So that's, that's a way for, as I see it, as I understand it is a way for, for for impact in your work and people's work. When you bring that empathy, you're able to bring that social impact.
Lydia:Definitely. And thank you for the suggestion in the beginning of how to reach the United Nations and how to work your way through this organisation.
Arjun Radeesh:So what would you advise high school and university students wanting to participate in such organisations, what would be the most effective, I know that you already gave some sort of an idea, but still, just as sort of like, in short, could you just give us a small idea about it?
Juan Pablo Celis:Persistence, persistence, persistence, you have to believe in what you're going where you're doing, you need to find your niche, your your, the your specific, let's say a topic or issue that you're interested in, and you need to research and find the places where you want to get yourself into there, I just, I just think, for me is highly important that you at least have a clear understanding of what issues you're passionate about. It doesn't have to be just one, but you have to choose it sit down and think about the issues that matter the most to you through your daily life. And when you start from there, you're able to find places where you can get involved. So for example, for high school and university students, I started, if I would, if I if someone would have said to me that you could start even during your time in college, I would have done it a long time before or during your time in high school. I remember these two young people that were participating in this youth group at the UN, and they were 16,17 years old, and they were just about to finish high school. And then I'm like, wow, I think you can start even No, you need to, of course, being able to divide your time well, so you can be effective in your university in your school, that you could also find other ways to be productive and find more and do more, let's say extracurricular activities, because I think it's that is really important when it comes to building on experience. I don't I mean, I respect most of the students that focus on 100% justice studying, but in my opinion, with based on what I've lived I think when you're studying, even if you're a full time student, you need to be able to find other things outside school that you can do at the same time, because only just studying full time is not really going to get you where you are. Because I feel that now, I think we're talking about experience as we were talking about experiment, experimental work, you need to try to do more things while you're in college, not just going to classrooms and studying and passing exams, there has to be a loss, you have to have that special place, you have to have that special, you know, that, that that little thing that would make the company think, oh, that he he or she did actually did they did something different Also, while they were studying, so this makes them special. So I think that's really important when it comes to, to getting involved with this kind of work and advocacy. So find your passion, find things that you can do outside school while you're studying. Even if you're still full time.
Arjun Radeesh:I would wrap the show. So thank you so much, Juan... Sorry if I pronounced your name wrong. So thank you so much. It is fun talking to you.
Lydia:[Talking Spanish].
Juan Pablo Celis:[Spanish] Thank you very much everybody. And it was really a pleasure to talk to you very short but very concise and, and congratulations on this very, very relevant podcast.