S5E16 Banking The New Majority: Tamara Laine

Credit scores were built for a world of steady paycheques and long mortgages—so what happens when half the workforce earns through gigs, multiple clients, and flexible hours? We sit down with Tamara Lane, an Emmy-winning journalist turned fintech founder, to explore how AI and verified alternative data can open fair credit to the people traditional underwriting overlooks: drivers, carers, creators, renters, and newly arrived citizens who keep the economy moving.

Tamara walks us through Empower’s approach to building lender-ready profiles from real life signals—rent payments, utilities, bank inflows, and multi-source income—sourced directly from institutions rather than hype-heavy tech. We unpack why human-in-the-loop systems matter for trust, how feedback loops keep products grounded in user reality, and why diverse teams aren’t a “nice to have” but essential to preventing bias at scale. Along the way, we challenge outdated assumptions about the gig economy and map a path where financial inclusion is not charity, but overdue modernisation.

You’ll hear a clear case for storytelling and community as the engines of adoption, practical ways to evaluate AI tools for privacy and safety, and a forward look at the next decade of work where soft skills and emotional intelligence rise in value. If you’ve ever paid your rent on time yet struggled to access credit, or if you build products and want to keep people at the centre, this conversation offers both strategy and hope.

If this resonates, follow and share the show with someone who needs a fairer shot at finance. Subscribe, leave a quick review, and tell us: what everyday data should count toward credit that doesn’t today?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Intro
• 2:10 Journalism To Founder: The Throughline
• 4:45 Keeping People At The Centre Of Tech
• 6:50 What Empower Does
• 9:20 Alternative Data For Thin Files
• 12:02 Verifying Non‑Traditional Income
• 13:30 Rethinking The Gig Economy
• 15:05 Ethical AI And Diverse Teams
• 17:20 Storytelling And Community As Levers
• 19:10 Trust, Safety And AI Adoption
• 20:35 The Next Decade Of Work And AI
• 22:20 Closing And Listener Thanks

Transcript

Stephen King: 0:00

Welcome back. We're here for another episode of The Incongruent, and I'm joined by Arjun. Once again, Arjun, thank you very much for being here. Uh who did we speak to today?

Arjun Radeesh: 0:12

So today we spoke to Tamara Laine. She is an award-winning, um Emmy Award-winning turned FinTech founder, and a business quote and a podcast host herself.

Stephen King: 0:25

And we've been brilliant. We were really lucky to talk to her. She was talking to us about providing financial services to the unbanked and underbanked, and in particular the uh, which is now primarily 50% of the US economy. Uh, this service is only in America right now, but further abroad. Uh so it's great. So Arjun, would you like to would you like to set us

Arjun Radeesh: 0:49

Absolutely. Hit it.

Stephen King: 0:53

Wait, wait. That's not what I say. Let's go!

Arjun Radeesh: 0:56

Go!

Arjun Radeesh: 0:56

Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Incongruent. So today we are gonna talk to an Emmy award-winning a fintech founder, and a business growth strategist. Her name is Tamara Laine. She is the founder and CEO of MPWR (pronounced Empower), where she is transforming how credit and capital are accessed by gig workers, and undeserved communities through AI.

Arjun Radeesh: 1:32

A former gig worker herself, Tamara brings the lived experience to her mission of building a more inclusive financial system. She has launched and scaled eight-figure tech ventures, is a recognized expert in financial inclusion, and economic innovation. Tamara also co-hosts "What's the Frac", a podcast on growth. So, Tamara, welcome on the show.

Tamara Laine: 1:59

Thank you for having me.

Arjun Radeesh: 2:01

Like, I'm very curious how your career bridges storytelling and financial systems. And how do you keep the human story, the person behind at the heart of innovation?

Tamara Laine: 2:20

Yeah, I mean, well, that's a loaded question. That's like three questions in one. So I should start with um, you know, what brought me to a fintech founder and how does that relate to being a journalist for the first part of my career? And really, I mean, the line is very clear to me.

Tamara Laine: 2:37

When I started my career as an investigative journalist it was about rooting out problems that affect people and how do you solve them, right? It's either finding someone who's solving them or myself as a journalist, finding that the dots that come to create a solution and putting that into the public. And so as a startup founder, you're doing the exact same thing. You are identifying a critical problem and you're creating a solution yourself through a product that then you're to serve to as many people as possible. And so, you know, when I look at that journey, it's very clear to me how I went from investigative journalist to founder.

Arjun Radeesh: 3:22

Okay.

Tamara Laine: 3:24

You also had two other questions in there. So, how do I find the human, the human storytelling it? Um, which, you know, storytelling, I think, is just part of my DNA. It's something that I think is innately human, right? Like in throughout history, storytelling has been the one thing that brings people together. That uh that also um, you know, brings uh children to their community. It passes along education. Storytelling is the thread that binds us all together as a society. And myself as a storyteller from the beginning, I know how important that story is when you're creating a product, in the relationship that a person has with that product, right? If if it doesn't hit you emotionally that you need you're not gonna use it. And so that's the basis of all products is the story brought you to it and the story that keeps you there, is the why, the how, uh, and then you know, the solution that it brings to you.

Arjun Radeesh: 4:49

The third part is basically the person behind the data the heart of innovation. So with the with how do you keep with the human story and that part and and connect that human story to the to heart of innovation?

Tamara Laine: 5:12

Well, I think that's the struggle that all founders have, right? Because you get stuck in the creation. So you find you find the problem, and which is kind of why, and then you come up with the how, which is I'm gonna build this product. And then that human story is the part that's the most because it's who you're creating it for and how they with it, right? And how do you keep that at the heart of it? Um, is the largest challenge that any startup founder actually any company has, because you think, you know, as you're creating it, you're moving fast, you're you're the solution that you think. And if you don't have those feedback loops, which is one of my favorite things to talk about, you can lose human-centered um aspect of the technology that you're because you're you're not creating it for you, you're it for others to use.

Tamara Laine: 6:05

And so in order to keep that, you really do have to, know, create systems that give you feedback and put in the place to get feedback on your product so that not creating an asilo, so that you are putting the human in the center of it.

Tamara Laine: 6:20

And as uh AI, which I know we're gonna talk about a lot, a lot of that is about um not only creating your feedback, but your moments of keeping a human in the loop, right? So I'm creating agentic technology. And so the idea is that an agent should be able to go and do something. But we believe that a human needs to be in the loop and in control during the whole thing, right? So we create moments that are engineered to keep the human .

Stephen King: 6:56

That's a good point. But before we go into that depth of technology, maybe a good chance to talk about what MPWR is and and what it does, and then we can and then then it would then we can talk about the agentic uh because that's really quite and exciting stuff.

Tamara Laine: 7:11

Absolutely. So you would like me to to tell you about MPWR and what we're doing at MPWR?

Stephen King: 7:17

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If if you don't mind, that would that would be great. Just to give us a nutshell of so we we can see where It's something to do with gig working, as far as I I've gathered.

Tamara Laine: 7:26

Yeah, so uh well, MPWR is uh a new agentic ecosystem for lenders to understand thin filed users, which are gigworkers, caregiver economy, thin um uh newly arrived um people to different places that have a um a less full credit history right? And actually, if we think about it, that's the new generation right?

Tamara Laine: 7:51

The Gen Z, um what the new economy is doing is interacting with the financial system in a completely new way. And so what we need to do is we need to reinvent how that financial system interacts with people.

Tamara Laine: 8:06

And at MPWR, we're starting with lending, lending to people who are traditionally left out of the financial system. So gig workers are a huge part of that because they don't make a W 2. They don't have traditional income streams. And so the way that we understand them traditionally excludes them from accessing the type of credit, the type of loan that people who have a W 2 who have a consistent income have been able to get.

Tamara Laine: 8:35

So now we're leveraging AI, um uh deep learning and agentic systems to create a better way for gig workers for the economy to access credit and capital. And so I'm thrilled about it because it's something I'm passionate about working, you know, as a gig worker for half of my career and understanding the huge pain points that that has on being able to financially thrive.

Stephen King: 9:03

So this is helping the unbanked and underbanked gain access to financial services. And it's in America exclusively.

Tamara Laine: 9:14

Right now we're launching in America, but that's our first market.

Stephen King: 9:18

Excellent stuff. So from there, uh, you mentioned you're gonna use AI to with this. How exactly does that work? We've talked in other episodes about blockchain. Um, I'm assuming that it might be some blockchain involved in here.

Tamara Laine: 9:35

Well, no, so we don't leverage blockchain. Um, what we do is we've got a way of accessing really disparate financial information coming from a lot of sources and bringing it together and sorting through it in a way that creates easy to understand models. So a lot of our financial system doesn't communicate. So what we're doing is we're creating a way for it to communicate and understand the whole person. And then our agents take that information and help the borrower and help the bank move through that lending process.

Stephen King: 10:09

So, what kind of information data points are you collecting?

Tamara Laine: 10:13

I mean, we're collecting a hundred of different, hundreds of different data points. Um, but the main ones that really help gig workers that you can think of are traditionally banks look at your lending history, right? Um, the debts that you have. And so if you think about that, that's like a mortgage, student loans, that's credit cards. But a lot of the new economy, they don't have mortgages, right? Um, they don't have a lot of credit cards. They they rent, they have utility bills, they have um, you know, uh several different income streams. So we're able to pull in that information and create a credit profile of someone.

Stephen King: 10:57

So the that relies on the credibility and the quality of the sources that you're using. And if I'm a gig worker and I'm receiving cash, maybe cash in hand in some instances, uh how are you overcoming are you verifying the sources of information?

Tamara Laine: 11:18

So the sources of information come directly from um institutions, right? And so we're verifying direct from the source. So we can see bank data, we can see utility data, we see renting data, we can see secondary loans, we can see um uh automobile loans.

Stephen King: 11:44

Excellent. Okay. Uh so you talked about we've talked about that one. So what do you think are the biggest misconceptions uh the traditional financial institutions still have gig economy? It's you know it's it's not a new thing anymore. This has become business work as usual, right? In the past, it was if you were off outside of work and in one of these jobs, it was considered you're almost like a second or third class citizen in some respects. But now this is the way of life forever. So what legacy falsehoods or used to be true have false that needs to be overcome?

Tamara Laine: 12:30

Well, I mean, the gig economy, when I say gig workers, I'm sure most people think that's your Uber driver, right? Um, but in the US, it's 50% of the workforce. The gig economy stands from your Uber driver to your Airbnb host to your fractional CMO that has five different clients and is, you know, not making a traditional W-2, but is leveraging their, you know, um C-suite knowledge to work but also travel and live the way they want to. The new generation of workers um is mostly gig workers, economy, and that's only growing. And so the major misconception is that the gig um, like you said, like kind of this secondary class. And that is not the case. The gig economy is nearing the majority of the workforce.

Arjun Radeesh: 13:27

So I want to ask now you you you have won an Emmy for reporting on ethical AI. How does that experience influence the way you and team design and deploy AI within Empower?

Tamara Laine: 13:45

I mean, it has a huge uh effect on the way that I work and design. And so, you know, from the very beginning, I was one of the early people reporting on ethical AI. I did the story back in 2017.

Tamara Laine: 13:56

It got the Emmy I believe, in 2018. Um, you know, back then I was talking to a lot of who were talking about, you know, how AI was going it came out, be incredibly explosive and powerful growth. And so that's why they were trying to get ahead of it with putting in more regulations and more codes of Um, you know, that's not that hasn't happened.

Tamara Laine: 14:20

Um, but for myself, what I see is, and I really took me is the importance of diversity of thought and of inclusion when designing systems like these because how powerful they are.

Tamara Laine: 14:32

If you don't have more people creating the technology, it is very easy to leave people out or to have systems that do harm versus do no harm because they leave out critical things that, you know, um certain groups wouldn't think of, right? If it's an only male group creating technology, it leaves out different things that could happen to women, right? You think about that would be huge in healthcare. When we talk about security and the security um that's coming out leveraging AI, when you have only people designing it, it can have terrible effects on who have darker skin. Um, and so therefore, when you're creating technology, you have to have a diverse group in the room to talk about it, to talk about the implications, to talk about the of it. Otherwise, you can be creating something in a silo that effects that were unintended.

Arjun Radeesh: 15:45

Again, I did I I did the classic technologically move, uh, which is muting myself and talking. Uh again, conscious of the time, so I'm just gonna uh shoot over to my next question. Uh you've scaled eight-figure tech ventures from a lens. What's the most powerful lever of technology, storytelling for driving true economic inclusion?

Tamara Laine: 16:16

Storytelling and community. So you can have the best technology in the world if you have a good story, if you don't have the storytelling and community, the adoption rate is going to be painfully slow. Um, and so you you have to be able to communicate the power of your technology. Back before I was a founder, I worked with a lot of start-ups and founders. And um, my my great skill was being able to boil down complex issues into really simple to understand. Because, you know, as a newscaster, I was doing that. I was doing investigative journalism and then doing minute 30 second stories. Um, and so the the most critical thing is the and community. Because if you don't have that, you are gonna have the time lifting your fantastic technology off the ground.TV muted.

Stephen King: 17:21

I'm looking now at the communities and community in the UK where I am now is terrified of AI. It's really is not very positive. So, how do you encourage people who let's face it, probably haven't. I mean, apart from the fractal people like myself, uh, if you just entered a new entry into a country or you're going out of university, you don't have financial literacy. Even if you have my lack of hair, you still get scammed. So people are concerned about this. And AI is not is also something people are scared about. How do you convince them that AI is going to be

Tamara Laine: 18:11

Well, one thing I should say is I'm really excited for UK because they just implemented universal education of fluency for students, which is phenomenal, and it's such a great step. And I wish more countries would do that. I wish the US would do that. I've worked on that for a long time. Um, but when you talk about AI and like some of the things that are concerning about it, you are absolutely right.

Tamara Laine: 18:32

Like deep fakes and AI and and scamming is a very big And so there's good reason to be skeptical of that. And that's why they're just you have to use trusted right? Um you, you know, new movers will have a harder time with adoption for AI. Um, but that's okay because the hockey stick is moving with adoption. So you have to know the platform.

Tamara Laine: 19:02

You need to trust the platform. Um, that's where partnerships are really important technology. Uh, and then um, you know, people are trying out all of different AI technologies. It's uh it's about just making sure that you're well on what they're connected to, what security uh and and privacy you are um accepting when you sign up for them. Um, and then, you know, make sure you're educated on That's that's a hard thing to say, but like it's AI is here, it's growing. Education needs to be a large part of that.

Stephen King: 19:44

Uh a final question then. Um What happens in 10 years' time? Where do you see this all growing? Uh, everyone is probably going to become gig At least 78% of us are gonna be gig workers as we get and the economies become older and older. Uh, what role should AI play in that transition? What what what's where do you see it playing?

Tamara Laine: 20:08

Well, see, now I see the gig economy as a really thing, uh an area of freedom, right? Um, an area of choosing your own choice of what want to do and how you want to do it and where you want to do it. You know, um since COVID, the way that we work and and and are able to choose our own schedules has become liberating for a lot of people. And so that movement I see progressing and becoming very positive.

Tamara Laine: 20:37

Now, the interaction of AI with that, where I see AI is um I see AI becoming something for productivity. I do not see it removing people from careers. I see it changing the way that we um that we work and that the skills that we need changing. Um, I'm doing a lot of work on the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership.

Tamara Laine: 21:04

So soft skills are gonna become important. Remember, you know, learning history, learning the arts, learning humanities is gonna become something that takes precedent over maybe doing STEM anymore because you know, you've got the tools to do math but and to, you know, to do science, but the soft skills of art and are gonna highly relevant, especially when it comes to creating products.

Tamara Laine: 21:30

Um, and so in 10 years, I mean, I see productivity um a major uh area where AI will help people and then free up time. Now, I hope my goal is that it helps free up time. What I've noticed is with the boom of AI, most founders, most people seem like they're um short on time because so much to learn, so much to do. Like I think in this moment, AI has not helped us with It's kind of complicated a lot of things until out how to leverage it. So um we're in a moment of transition, but where I moving is that it should help us and uh enable us to some better quality lives.

Stephen King: 22:22

Anyway, thank you very much. I think Arjun, I think it's our time. Do you want to close us down?

Arjun Radeesh: 22:26

Yeah, sure. Um thank you so much, uh Tamara for coming in and kind of sharing that story. And to all those listeners out there, thank you so for tuning on to another episode of Incongruent. Please do like, share, and subscribe as our podcasts available across your favorite podcast platforms. Until next time, this is the entire crew, myself and and Tamara signing off. Goodbye.

Editor: 22:49

Last edited, December 31, 2025.